test

Already I'm so lonesome I could die.
So kiss me and smile for me, tell me that you'll wait for me



Post Edited (04-28-03 21:22)

women aren't assertive enough to make money in the workplace like a man. they tend to be more complacent.

affirmative action is complete and utter bullshit. you say you want equality? you don't get equality by enforcing reversed racism and sexism. complete. utter. bullshit. let people get hired for how they do their work. maybe the reason men get hired more and get paid more is because they do a better job. did that ever cross your mind? that maybe testosterone has something to do with it. because, let's face it, and this is a biological fact, men are more agressive than women. hence, men tend to get things done more quickly and more efficiently. don't give me any sexist bullshit. race and sex are hardly the issue today that the racist al sharpton assholes and neo-feminist-nazis make it out to be.

affirmative action. yeah. let's hear it for equality! now qualified whites won't get into the college of their choice and won't get the job of their choice because a racial quota has to be met! yay!

welcome to a new century. this is hardly the Jim Crow south anymore.


-Mike





Go listen to my band. We're awesome.

http://www.myspace.com/rosencrantzny
weallgotwoodandnails

I forgot, Madonna's right about everything and everyone elses opinion is false upon delivery. It's pitiful you have resort to insults because someone countered your perspective. Women have it bad do they? Do something about it or shut up.



I absolutely love her when she smiles

i'm not actually getting involved in this argument except to say that i think, if you fiercly argumentative few would take a second and listen to each other, that there's a little truth on each side....
madonna is very right about the women frolicking in the pool in the beer commercial....but i prefer to look at that commercial as entertaining rather than degrading...much the same way i look at most strip clubs...which is probably a little warped in itself but i never claimed to be stable....clearly a man made that commercial, thinking he was clever as hell and about to win an obie award for making the best damned beer commercial ever...and you know what? whoever he is, he IS smart as hell, because that commercial is the hot topic of the year...but i PROMISE you that there's a woman who works at his agency making the same salary, if not more, than he is who is making more intelligent and though provoking advertisements. all of the nike goddess ads, and the ones from few years ago that i used to rip out of magazines and collect that would be 4 pages long talking about awesome, empowering, inspirational things; they were all written by a woman, and they won SO many awards...and that's only the beginning. it's funny to me that some men can get off on watching women play up their (the men's) neanderthal tendencies. esentially, the strippers taking all of their money and women wrestling in the pool are just mocking their immaturity and simplicity, i hope....and laughing all the way to the bank. as for the rest of us, well, it's true we'll have to work a little harder, but complaining about it isn't going to make anybody listen....that will just make the men in charge write off our rant as an emotional outburst or pms and will only serve to further weaken our argument. the bottom line is that women are emotional and men are much less so. emotion has no place in business. i have no statistics to back me up, but i'm still going to go out on a limb here and say that i'll bet most of the women in the corporate world who are making the big bucks have never cried at the copy machine or stomped their feet 2 days before their period stared and screamed "it's not fair!!" about anything. i'm the girl who cries though, so i'd be smarter to practice what i preach.

mike, i know you're smart enough to see that your statement about women not being assertive enought to make money in the work place, and being complacent was generalized and perhaps a bit ignorant, which i know that you're NOT, so i'm not going to gripe at you for it...i just hope that you take a closer look and maybe revise it just a little. some women ARE complacent, but not all of us, just the same way that some men are ceo's and some men are Al Bundy.
and alan....if you're telling madonna to "do something about [women having it bad]"....i think you'll see that she actually IS doing something about it. she's forming opinions and arguing them intelligently....if there are a few insults thrown in there, well, we've ALL resorted to insults from time to time. it's part of being passionate. women are emotional by nature, and i think that even though i said before that emotion has no place in the the corporate world (which i still strongly stand by), a woman who strives ONLY to succeed and in doing so abandons all of her emotionality would never be truly happy, and therefor never truly successful....million dollar paycheck or not. maybe as women we need to stop trying to succeed the same way men do and instead blaze a new trail...like oprah or something. she's got more money than God, and she cries all the time. i love that, because it's real. i have no respect for women who try to act like men. it's sad and desperate. be who you are and be proud of it. that's the most important thing....then you'll be succesful and rich no matter what )
i know all these things cuz i'm old, right mike? ha ha.
didn't i say i wasn't joining this argument? dammit.



rachel......

Oh don't worry Alan I plan on doing something about it, this is why I am going to college, and why I am going to get a degree in business and etc, and someday I plan on running for president, don't give me that bullshit about women not being assertive or aggresive enough, yea some women are whimps but in general women work just as well as men. Anyway, Rachel had some very good points. I am done arguing about it, and as far as emotion not having a place in business in some ways I agree and in some ways I disagree. Emotion can be let out in many different ways, whereas I do not cry in front of people, I do not PMS, and I rarely let people know when somethings wrong, I am emotional because I feel passionate about certain things. That passion is technically emotion, but I feel that having passion about what you are doing is necissary in order to succeed. Take Bill Gates for example, he was passionate about computers and etc, now he has billions of dollars. Anyway, I am not whinning about the fact that women are payed less, I am just stating it as fact. Anyway, yes Rachel I realize I am very argumentative, but I have a feeling that will help me succeed in life because I know what I want and I am going to go for it. No man, or woman or anyone is going to stop me. So that's all, and Alan or Mike have you ever attempted to put yourselves in other people's shoes and try to see what it may feel like to be treated the way they are? You may want to try it sometime.

You should take more after Rachel.. she knows when people are joking and when people are truly angry at her etc. Just like she said at the beginning she didn't want to get involved and she was sweet about giving her "side." Rachel is a great girl and you should see the way she handles things. I'm not saying you shouldn't be an individual it's just that you're so mean and you went out of your way to really have an "eye" for me. And I mean that in a negative way. It's hard to explain but basically it's hard to take you seriously when you supposedly ignore most posts and then beat down people when you do reply. If you only do that to me and Mike, but more so me, then you need a manual to understand how to get along with you and I'm not gonna bother with that at this time..



I absolutely love her when she smiles

lmao umm I am real easy to get along with. see the problem is you only communicate with me over a message board.....it's easy to not really know anyone over a message board because all you see is one side, when in fact people are not flat characters.....but anyway, it's pretty hard to get on my badside, but spouting sexist/racist bullshit seals the deal.

mathematically improbable for a woman to be elected president at this stage of the game

-Mike





Go listen to my band. We're awesome.

http://www.myspace.com/rosencrantzny
weallgotwoodandnails

You just don't get it. You are not easy to get along with just because you say so.. I don't care if this is a board.. words are words and people are people..

But whatever you want to spin around in your head will be your own demise one day..



I absolutely love her when she smiles

whoa............i appreciate the support, alan, but madonna definitely shouldn't try to be like me or see things my way, she should just be herself....really....if she doesn't get along with you and mike, i really don't think she cares, and that's okay too. i'm sure there are a ton of people she DOES get along with, and they love her, and that's all that matters. does her opinion of you really matter to you? because your opinion of her couldn't matter less to her....it's not something to get upset about...i think that if it's obvious one of us doesn't get along with someone else, then those two people should just ignore each other, because what's the point of getting hysterical? it's futile.



rachel......

First of all I did say she should be an individual but what we become is shaped by our experiences and other people ..

so.. if you and Madonna are willing to except that truth..

She's should take some pointers from you because you handle yourself better in a situation like this and frankly a lot more of the time at least when you care to respond on this board..

I never got into her caring what I think etc. and vice versa..



I absolutely love her when she smiles

alan....i wasn't being shitty.....or taking sides or anything....i was just trying to say that.....oh poo. i wan't trying to say anything. nevermind. can we all just not fight, please? we don't have to love each other, but lets just not fight.



rachel......

it's not fighting. it's discussing. what's wrong with taking sides on an issue? i admire someone who takes a stance and defends it more than someone who just wishes to avoid all conflict.

-Mike





Go listen to my band. We're awesome.

http://www.myspace.com/rosencrantzny
weallgotwoodandnails

yea....I have to agree with mike on this one, it is called having a discussion....what message boards were made for. Onto Alan, I am sorry I am upfront and honest, if that bugs you too bad, and I will never be passive and try to avoid all conflict. As much as I think Rachel is a great girl, I will never be like her.....we have grown up in two different worlds. As far as learning from her and acting like her, well not gonna happen. As much as I can say for myself is that I am not passive and wont talk **** behind your back. If I have a problem with someone I say it upfront, if that makes me a bad person.....well whatever. I personally feel it hurts a person more to lie to them about what you think of them. As far as being nice to you Alan.....hmmm I really don't go out of my way to be mean or nice to you, I think maybe you just have a bias towards thinking the connotations in my words are bad. As far as Mike goes, I also feel mutual about him. In general I have no real dislike or love for anyone on this board.....including the band members and etc. As far as the women's right statements go, I think it is really ridiculous of two spoiled white boys to **** on something like affirmative action. Affirmative action was not put in place to be reverse discrimination, it was put in place to assure that everything was equal. If that means fewer white kids get into the college of their choice so be it. Really that whole michigan state thing is ludacris. The reason those kids probably didn't get in is because they didn't fit the school. The reason they are suing is because they are spoiled and used to getting everything their way. You know what, life isn't fair, but as people we should strive our hardest to achieve some level of fairness. That means the bar has to be raised for everyone. I personally got into the college of my choice and also got 25,500 to go to that school for one year. The reason for that, is because I do a lot over the expected qouta. As far as it being mathematically impossible for a woman to be president, I have to say **** math. I am running for president and perhaps I will win. If I don't win someone will. Besides I still have 50 years before I will run, so the whole math thing doesn't really matter.

I didn't mention affirmitive action.. please get your facts straight.. you are grouping us together when really all we have in common is the belief of how ridiculous some of your stances are and the manner in which you go about exploiting them.

I never mentioned you should be passive etc... It was a comparison of how to people.. female mind you.. when about sharing to contradicting opinions to my views.. I said the way you go about things is way off.. of course you say that aint so keep thinking happy thoughts..

As far as being nice to me you just aint.. so that's why I said what I said.. you can explain in your own words as much as you want.. mean is mean.. is that clear enough??

Schools with affirmitive action do boot other qualified kids, especially whites, in favor of minorities... that's what it's for.. not because they probably weren't meant to be there.. You need that to happen to you apparently to understand that and you would be singing another tune if it had.. your the one that said we need to see our selves in other peoples shoes right?? Right right..

And it doesn't matter to you then it matters for the next 12 elections..

Oh and I don't need to be in a ghetto to "understand" life and be right about life and world events.. spoiled white girl.. prom queen.. chew on those words in your life for a while before you single us out as the the wrong folks to address "important" topics... good day..



I absolutely love her when she smiles

I wasn't just talking about the affirmative action, maybe that is the words I used, but I was speaking about this whole discussion in general in which stated that women basically don't deserve as much as men because we are weaker. Anyway, don't get your panties in wad. Everything will be ok.


"As far as being nice to me you just aint.. so that's why I said what I said.. you can explain in your own words as much as you want.. mean is mean.. is that clear enough??"

you really are a born victim aren't you? Not only is your spelling and grammar abominable, but you complain and whine way too much. Also, if you want me to take you seriously, don't use the word aint multiple times. As if you own the word.



Post Edited (04-26-03 17:11)

*Group Hug*

_______________________________
"Live for the Dream"
SKETCH

pardon me, but didn't you start this all by complaining and whining about how women have it so difficult and are essentially slaves to men and bad circumstance and a shitty society?

and you look very intelligent in an argument when you personally attack people. it really helps to get your point across.

-Mike





Go listen to my band. We're awesome.

http://www.myspace.com/rosencrantzny
weallgotwoodandnails

Plenty of people say aint in California, in Texas, the North, the East and plenty of other places. You are ridiculous to question my literary skills. I'm just typing away and if I miss a key and put to instead of two you still get my point or you wouldn't rubbing your breasts so much and typing away in hasty response with your face all red. You're apparently the thong queen of not caring or giving a damn about anything and just writing for the fun of it; and as such, you above all people princess should not be pointing out someone else for writing just to write without care. And at least I can write proper setences. That didn't cross your mind when you wrote that idiocy did it? And you should have just answered the question; but I guess that's what women do when they don't have a good reply. They simply insult, try to change the focus, and then run scalded. You aren't making a very good case for yourself anymore; it's all but over now. Oh and you're the only one with panties here; you are really a girl I'm assuming after all. They'll just keep wadding up on you as a matter of fact until you've had enough. Men don't have to worry about that since girls actually wear those; it's just another break that guys get that makes our lives so easy apparently. Sing it sister; you're resorting now to insults, tired phrases, and repetition to make some sort of point that was not even good to begin with. Kudos on avoiding everything that I pointed out. Kudos.



I absolutely love her when she smiles

"You're apparently the thong queen of not caring or giving a damn about anything and just writing for the fun of it"

I am not sure what you mean by thong queen, but I have to stand up and applaud your awareness.....really this is entertainment. However, I would like to point out that even though I write without care, I do take care in spelling and syntax. I also think the reason I didn't answer your question is because after the first few lines I got tired of reading. By the way my panties can't bunch, I'll leave it up to your imagination as to why. Anyway really my point was that the censoreship on this board is sexist, and really I think I did prove that with my little test. I know most guys wont accept the fact that there is sexism, and most white people like to ignore the fact that there is still a lot of racism, but really it's up to us as individuals to change. Also Mike, what the hell do you think politics is? Once you get tired of restating what you feel are the facts you go for character assination. Has been happening in this country since Adams and Jefferson. As far as seeing myself in other people's shoes I do it everyday, doesn't mean I am going to change my mind to better suit their mood. Anyway, you really should look into a good english teacher Alan....although I'm sure you are one of those qualified students that got the boot for a minority. I crack myself up, but really guys thanks for the entertainment. Oh and you want to know the reason I was prom queen, had nothing to do with being spoiled. I have worked for everything in my life. The reason I got prom queen is because I give back to my community, I get good grades, and I care about life and helping others. Why don't you come down to the shelter and serve Thanksgiving to people who can't afford it, or wrap Christmas gifts for children who wont be getting much. Maybe just maybe you will find a new reality. I am not going to pretend that I know your life story, but I have a real feeling that you make a lot of assumptions in your life. Anyway, I'm sure you will be happy with your own ideas as I am happy with my own. So whatever, stop getting your panties in a wad.

Sketch!!!! Where have you been??? HUG!

Please.. repeat yourself a little more..

So there's no point to seeing yourself in other peoples shoes.. you do it and you aren't gonna change nothing about yourself so that defeats that stupid argument.. moving on to your next foolishness.

Your so ignorant and I'm not even gonna tell you why.. I write just fine.. sigh..

If you're so up for change then change so you aren't such a bitch. Hey, I can say that word. Looks like we both crack ourselves up.

You fool.. whether you're gonna admit it or not, the girl you feed at the shelter isn't gonna win prom queen. It isn't because of your little arguments like charity and whatever else you think is so great in this world.. you won because you are spoiled.. the dead beat does not win prom queen.. or king for that matter.

If you really live a life like that you have got to be kidding me.. you read about it and you see it in shows but if you really are that great it's pretty ubelievable..

Just keep up the good work because you'll know when you make the above statements false.. maybe they already are.

Wrapping paper on objects.. wow.. I really need that to convince myself I'm a good person.



I absolutely love her when she smiles

"see, ambition around here throws a non-perishable item in the donation bin at christmas and then pats itself on the fucking back for thinking it's done something decent."

i'm not impressed by serving food to homeless on thanksgiving and wrapping presents on christmas. people come out in droves to do that

-Mike





Go listen to my band. We're awesome.

http://www.myspace.com/rosencrantzny
weallgotwoodandnails

Ummm as far as putting myself in other people's shoes, I said "As far as seeing myself in other people's shoes I do it everyday, doesn't mean I am going to change my mind to better suit their mood." I never said that I don't ever change my mind. As far as people changing really I am not a big advocate for it, ummm yea actually I am probably one of the least changing people you will ever meet. I never ever said that everyone should change always. Don't jump to assumptions. Then you stated that I was ignorant, no I'm not really, but then again you know absolutely nothing about me. Actually, come to think of it, you don't know me at all. So why in the hell are you reaching for ways to tear me down? First of all you wont succeed. Second of all, you keep jumping to assumptions about me and my life. Yes I admit I called you spoiled but that was on the basis of your photographs. Yes I did criticize your english skills, but that was based on the english you have presented in your posts. By the way we all keep repeating the same old ****, but you most of all. Also, there is a large jump between being a dead beat and spoiled. There is this whole middle ground thing you should look into, people don't have to be one way or the other. Then I read the line where you stated "charity and whatever else you think is so great in this world" and I realized again you know nothing about me. So I am sitting here asking myself why this little boy is getting so upset about me mocking him and questioning his reality. Maybe this little boy is getting upset because he is insecure?? That may not be what is wrong with you at all, but really why else would you be trying to belittle someone else that you don't even know? Save your breath, I allready know what you are going to say to all of this, it's a broken record. Oh yea real clever calling me a bitch, that hurts soooo bad. You know when I was going on about the bitch word it wasn't because I personally care ;O). Awww Alan so cute and defensive, but really you should either try and pay attention when you type or look into getting an english tutor and I only say that to help you. The last thing I am going to say is, wrapping christmas gifts and feeding the needy is only two examples and I only used them because they are pretty universal. Generally when you use examples you should make them universal so that all people can understand. Oh well, now Alan if you are going to bother to reply to this, try to make a little bit of an effort to be eloquent.

I am so cute... yay.



I absolutely love her when she smiles

I am adorable, gotta love me.....lmao right. Anyway Alan I was curious, what exactly do you think I look like?

Oh and I guess you ran out of comebacks? Or just got tired of repeating yourself?



Post Edited (04-27-03 18:15)

None of the above.

Message me on AIM sometime.



I absolutely love her when she smiles

to think...freedom fries


-amy
nine days of rain

"dude, i'm old" ~jeremy

all my fault.

Sorry.

Really.

James

actually it had nothing to do with you James, but thank you for the gesture, and nothing to do with freedom fries.

nevermind madonna...go back and read the posts


-amy
nine days of rain

"dude, i'm old" ~jeremy